mick
Home
Hunter
Posts: 2,081
|
Post by mick on Oct 2, 2008 13:00:29 GMT 1
Another review about this episode (spoilery, of course): eclipsemagazine.com/television/6776/television-supernatural-s4-in-the-beginning-a-review/I found these to parts interesting: However, if you are the kind of viewer/fan who can appreciate a storyline that is about the continuation of character’s journey, even though that character may not be physically present in the particular episode, then odds are you may really appreciate this episode.It is also the episode that shows us exactly to what extent Dean has been pushed into the myth arc of the storyline.Once again, Jensen Ackles gives a ‘knock it out of the ballpark’ outstanding performance as his character of Dean Winchester is confronted with one startling twist and turn about his family history after another. (the reviewer also commented on Jensen/Mitch scenes) There is only one comment right now, but it's a comment that complains about what Dean's role is going to be in the mytharc stuff (all based on what was wirtten in the articel, which doesn't give any specifics, more info where we can probably come to some sort of conclusion, but we won't know if it's the right one until the episode airs). Poor Kripke--it seems like he can do nothing right for some people.
|
|
|
Post by Silwyna on Oct 2, 2008 13:04:05 GMT 1
And it is soooo German.
It's NOT German! It's bavarian! It's a small part of Germany ... our weirdest part on top of that!
|
|
|
Post by malokitty on Oct 2, 2008 22:48:21 GMT 1
Isn't that a paradox or something? Like you go back in time to change the past, in order to alter the future, but the present future you live in was made because of you going back in time. Like cycle thing.
Ow my brain hurts. Time travel confuses me. It doesn't really help that all I know on the theories of time travel are based from Artemis Fowl and Back to the Future.
Did I ever mention how much I dislike Planet of the Apes and Terminator?
|
|
yor
Home
Samfanatic
My men!
Posts: 2,171
|
Post by yor on Oct 2, 2008 23:39:15 GMT 1
Um, Now that's PRIDE...
After all.. Schleswig-Holstein has a bit over 2,800,000 citizens... and well, Bavaria only has just a little less than 4.5 times as many with 12,500,000 citizens... That's ok, it's only 15% of Germany's total population...
They must be the small, weird part....
Sa'right Silke... We describe states like Alabama and Georgia as the small weird states in the US too... (DUCKING!)
Silke, I do PROMISE, by the time you get here, the Oktoberfest decorations and Bavarian weiss/blau streamers will be tucked well away!
No Bavaria for you!
|
|
yor
Home
Samfanatic
My men!
Posts: 2,171
|
Post by yor on Oct 3, 2008 1:50:26 GMT 1
Ya know... I really don't actually LIKE Lederhosen.... Just Bavaria!
|
|
yor
Home
Samfanatic
My men!
Posts: 2,171
|
Post by yor on Oct 3, 2008 2:30:07 GMT 1
ok... running commentary...
HOLY HOPPING SNOT! I'm a bit ticked. I should have guessed it, but didn't. I'm a bit ticked at myself.
giggle giggle...
Dean v Grandpa... a hoot
holy snipes... when she makes her confession, she has the Mary eyes... HEART BREAK!!!
So she doesn't get out of bed and Whammy.... Sam is screwed???
|
|
yor
Home
Samfanatic
My men!
Posts: 2,171
|
Post by yor on Oct 3, 2008 2:40:04 GMT 1
HOLY HOPPIN' SNOT!
|
|
yor
Home
Samfanatic
My men!
Posts: 2,171
|
Post by yor on Oct 3, 2008 2:50:56 GMT 1
hmmmm.....
|
|
|
Post by malokitty on Oct 3, 2008 3:01:37 GMT 1
Wow, Dean really, really, screwed up. Accidentally getting your grandfather, grandmother and father killed and damning your little brother in one fled swoop? And I love how Yellow Eyes did not tell Dean his plan deliberately. He made this big deal of how great his plan is and stoll spills nothing! I love that Dean was named after Deanna. So now Dean knows about the demon blood thing, I guess Sammy didn't tell him about it. The angels don't even know what is going on with Sam.
I think I'm starting to dislike Castiel more, with the whole vague threatening to kill Sam. Sam really wasn't in the episode for very long.
Best quotes: "Are you allergic to straight answers or something?" "Where ever you are Sam, Mom's a baby. And I'm going to hell. Again."
|
|
|
Post by jensensbabe on Oct 3, 2008 3:15:59 GMT 1
I'M SO FLIPPING FREAKING OUT! That was an amazing episode! I'm just flipping out. Wow...
Now I'm watching my season 2 dvd of Children Shouldn't Play w/ Dead Things. Who was it that bought Mary's tombstone??? I thought it was an uncle (Mary's brother) that the kids never knew......
Ok, it was Mary's Uncle.....Whew...glad I got that question answered! LOL
|
|
mick
Home
Hunter
Posts: 2,081
|
Post by mick on Oct 3, 2008 3:23:53 GMT 1
Wow, Dean really, really, screwed up
I would have to disagree with this. At the end, Castiel told him that he wouldn't have been able to change anything--destiny can't be changed. So, to me, whether Dean was there or not, what happened still would have happened.
Loved the "Back to the Future" reference!
I wasn't all that surprised that Mary came from a family of hunters--I had read that speculation a while ago. I wonder if John ever found out after her death?
Where did Sam go? What did he do? And what's up with him leaving Dean when he's sleeping? I did miss Sam, though. I miss the brothers together.
I think the TBC might mean at a later date? Maybe there will be an episode where we see what Sam was up to during this time? And poor Dean--so sure that Sammy was looking for him, then Castiel had to go and tell him he wasn't.
Loved the actors they got to play Dean's family. I think the girl who played Mary was great!
Jensen and Mitch rocked! As that scene where Dean started telling him the truth, I kept thinking, "He's in grandpa! No, he can't be in grandpa!"
Samuel and Deanna--I guess we know why Sam and Dean never mentioned their grandparents. Mary probably never talked about them. I do wonder how she explained the situation to John, though.
The "I'm sorry" makes so much sense now.
I do have to say, though, I am disappointed that the whole reason Dean was saved was for Sam. I mean, I always kind of figured it would be that way, but I was really hoping it had more to do with him. Different verse, same as the first, only this time it's Castiel with the "save him or kill him" instead of John. I do think the writers have upped the game, though. Sam's got some tough choices to make--as long as the make them his choices and not that he couldn't help it. I've always liked the human aspect to the show. We all make choices, make mistakes.
And what's up with the Winchester's making deals? Mary gets John back by giving away Sammy (although she didn't know that), John for Dean, Dean for Sam...good grief, it makes my head hurt even worse!
And, why did Castiel start out by saying that Dean had to stop something, then end it with telling Dean he couldn't have stopped it? I do think, though, that Dean needed to "see" what happened, because there's no way that he would have believed Castiel if he had just told him.
Heh, now both boys know about the demon blood, but I bet they still won't tell the other! Oh, boys!
|
|
|
Post by malokitty on Oct 3, 2008 4:03:23 GMT 1
Wow, Dean really, really, screwed upI would have to disagree with this. At the end, Castiel told him that he wouldn't have been able to change anything--destiny can't be changed. So, to me, whether Dean was there or not, what happened still would have happened. And what's up with the Winchester's making deals? Mary gets John back by giving away Sammy (although she didn't know that), John for Dean, Dean for Sam...good grief, it makes my head hurt even worse! And, why did Castiel start out by saying that Dean had to stop something, then end it with telling Dean he couldn't have stopped it? I do think, though, that Dean needed to "see" what happened, because there's no way that he would have believed Castiel if he had just told him. Yeah, I kind of disagree now too, I typed that before Castiel did his little explanation. I guess Mary is to blame for starting the whole "Winchester Sacrifice thing. Maybe Castiel wanted Dean to be able to change the past, or at least for him to try. Even though Castiel knew he wouldn't be able to change the past, maybe he just hoped the mighty Dean Winchester could. Either that or he's a sadist (and possibly Dean's stalker.)
|
|
|
Post by Silwyna on Oct 3, 2008 8:30:31 GMT 1
I would have to disagree with this. At the end, Castiel told him that he wouldn't have been able to change anything--destiny can't be changed. So, to me, whether Dean was there or not, what happened still would have happened.
I agree. It's a paradox. Because if nothing of what happened happened, Dean would have never been sent back. So he couldn't have "brought" the demon to Mary. And yet, somehow, the demon caught scent of Mary anyway.
This was an AWESOME episode!!! I have to say, as much as I thought I would miss Sam, I didn't! There was so much going on, Dean meeting John and Mary and his grandparents ... Mitch Pileggi as Grandfather Samuel was just amazing. And the YED was there! In Mitch Pileggi!!!
And I love that Dean was named after a woman. I bet that's one of the things he'll NEVER tell Sam about *laughs*
The actress playing Mary was also perfect casting. She really was Mary!
I also think that Castiel had never meant for Dean to change anything. He just wanted him to see. But he wasn't going to just tell him, "I send you back so you can watch what happened", knowing Dean, he would have known that he would try to change things. So just let him believe that that's what he's supposed to do is kinda clever.
only this time it's Castiel with the "save him or kill him" instead of John
I don't think it's exactly the same. Castiel won't wait for Dean to make his decision whether Sam has turned evil or not. Should Castiel think that Sam can't be saved, he'll kill him. And he doesn't care what Dean will think about it.
I think I'm starting to dislike Castiel more, with the whole vague threatening to kill Sam.
Actually, that made me love him even MORE a little bit, as twisted as that is *g*
Ok, it was Mary's Uncle....
Which makes me wonder ... where is he? Hunting on his own? Or did he turn his back to his family? Chose not to hunt?
Loved the "Back to the Future" reference!
Absolutely!!!
Gosh, I would have loved to have a few more minutes of this ep and see Dean watching what Sam was doing!
That's ok, it's only 15% of Germany's total population...
That's right .... 15 % craziness - 45 % normal (well, almost normal anyway *g*). You know, not even the Bavarians see themselves as real German, they would like to be a country on their own. They're just ... different than rest Germany. It's a fact *nods*
ETA: I should probably say that I don't hate EVERYTHING about Bavaria. They have a beautiful landscape (even though there are no oceans), Munich is an awesome town and being solidary with my future BIL I'm a pseudo fan of Bayern München (the No. 1 German Soccer Team; and also ironically, though not surprisingly the most hated German Soccer Team). So, not all about Bavaria is evil ... Lederhosen though are!
|
|
yor
Home
Samfanatic
My men!
Posts: 2,171
|
Post by yor on Oct 3, 2008 12:21:50 GMT 1
I think I'm gonna end up coming out on the other side of the table from the rest of you. Yes, it was a good episode, but I wasn't blown out of the water... Sure, I loved it, but after a night's sleep, there's a feeling of... I dunno, can't quite describe it, maybe disappointment? I suspect absolutely, my expectations are too high. One of the questions that lingers for me, is just what Mary would have told John. Her dad comes, attacks him and is suddenly dead of a stab wound and no knife is present? Her mom is dead of a broken neck at home? Even a good hearted, non-tainted John had to wonder what the heck was up... What explanation was offered? Did she give him a basic? I KNOW she wouldn't have told him about her 'deal', but I have to believe she introduced him to this concept? Maybe he was skeptical, so he just brushed it aside to make her feel better? Of course, 10 years later, it all makes sense to him. He comes to believe. ? I didn't have a problem with Castiel sending Dean back. He was merely trying to help Dean understand the situation. I'm going to have to rewatch obviously, in light of my company, I didn't do it last night and it will probably be a few days before I can, but... He wanted Dean to have full understanding. I think it was cool. What I don't get is why all are saying it is back to kill Sam... I believe part of Castiel's mission was to reveal to Dean that Sam is keeping secrets and part of this, BUT I didn't get an ominous vibe. We've always known this. We knew it had to come out... Now it has. When he said Sam didn't know he was gone... I didn't get the feeling it was because Sam had been gone for days. I felt like Sam was out for a nightly demon kill as he had been doing for weeks... (I got hungry.) I also didn't think days had passed in present time... If you're sending someone back in time, I assumed the present time was suspended. Castiel gave Dean the address and now he's going to find out about Sam's demonic powers. Ok... that's the jist of it to me. I didn't read anything more into it. Perhaps I'm being naive. Even Castiel admits they don't know what YED's plan was... Was it tied somehow to Lillith? Do we have two big dark plans now? Maybe this is the part I don't like about the episode? Here's another thing that 'bugs' me... In the beginning, we get this kid who says he wished his dad would stop beating him and it happens... Ok, Demon with yellow eyes. BUT from this gross kiss the YED gives Mary are we to assume YED is really a Crossroads Demon? Do all demons have to seal with a kiss? No, I don't think this kid mentioned a kiss. So, YED was just getting his kicks by kissing Mary? I just didn't like the mixed reference. Demons are supposed to follow set patterns... The one review said they saw Mitch channeling Sam... I didn't see that. I honestly kept looking for it. I actually did very much miss Sam in this episode. Next week's episode doesn't seem to deal with it at all. And what is it with all the spoiler / pics of upcoming episodes seeming to put Dean in peril??? Now mind you, I kinda like that Sam finally gets to save him, but... I'm also VERY disappointed. This was supposed to explain Dean's role in the mytharc... It doesn't. It's no different than it always has been... I really expected a clear and specific DIFFERENT role for Dean, but there's none revealed. Just more of the same... or again, did I miss something? The most I could see? When Mary says, "I swear to God..." I needed Castiel to come right out and say, 'this is why you had to be pulled from Hell. Your mom cried out for balance." Does that make sense? Is this the supposed reveal of Dean's purpose... That's it? Something we've known all along? I think it would have been a hell of a switch to have YED have then come for Dean! But it seems it had to be a 6-month old... It makes me need to go back and watch all of Dean's interactions with YED... YED has met him already... Do we see that? He doesn't strike me as the type who wouldn't have alluded to that. I guess I'm Debbie downer... Sorry.
|
|
|
Post by Silwyna on Oct 3, 2008 13:33:01 GMT 1
One of the questions that lingers for me, is just what Mary would have told John.
I think she might have told him the truth ... or most of it anyway. That her parents were hunters and so was she and that she wanted out. She could tell him that his father had been possessed by a demon and started killing his family, that he already had the wound when he came here (which he had) and that she excorcised him, hence saving John and herself. This would also explain why John so easily started to believe that some kind of "monster" had killed Mary - because he already knew a little bit of the supernatural world out there.
What I don't get is why all are saying it is back to kill Sam...
I don't think it's about killing Sam anymore than it was before. Like you, I think Castiel wanted Dean to understand, to see what really happened and to find out about the demon blood. And with revealing the adress to Dean, he clearly wanted him to see what Sam was capable of (I just wish we would have seen if Dean really got to witness what happenend! For all we know, he could have opened the door and Sam was already on his way back to the motel). He also made it very clear that he wouldn't hesitate to kill Sam and I think he needs Dean to see why. Make him understand that he can't trust Sam 100 % anymore.
I also didn't think days had passed in present time... If you're sending someone back in time, I assumed the present time was suspended.
That's what I thought too. Castiel can send him back to a time in the future mere seconds after he send him back to the past. Sam would never know he was gone.
Good point about the two plans. Hmm ... maybe Lillith knows about YED's plan? Whatever the Endgame is, I think it's still going on and Sam is still a part of that. Maybe Lillith's wants to fulfill the plan, but doesn't want Sam - a human - to be part of that, hence she tried to kill him?
Here's another thing that 'bugs' me... In the beginning, we get this kid who says he wished his dad would stop beating him and it happens... Ok, Demon with yellow eyes. BUT from this gross kiss the YED gives Mary are we to assume YED is really a Crossroads Demon? Do all demons have to seal with a kiss? No, I don't think this kid mentioned a kiss. So, YED was just getting his kicks by kissing Mary? I just didn't like the mixed reference. Demons are supposed to follow set patterns...
I didn't really get this either. I don't think the YED has to kiss to seal the deals ... otherwise he would have had to have kissed John as well. Maybe he just liked to torture Mary a little bit more? Force a kiss on her while she's holding her dead lover in her arms?
The one review said they saw Mitch channeling Sam... I didn't see that. I honestly kept looking for it. I actually did very much miss Sam in this episode. Next week's episode doesn't seem to deal with it at all. And what is it with all the spoiler / pics of upcoming episodes seeming to put Dean in peril??? Now mind you, I kinda like that Sam finally gets to save him, but...
I know what you mean. I'd like to see a few more pics with Sam as well. And I want Sam to be in danger too, not just Dean. I hope that the pics were just randomly chosen and don't really tell too much about what we'll eventually see in the episode.
They might still adress this ep's events next to the actual storyline.
I'm also VERY disappointed. This was supposed to explain Dean's role in the mytharc...
Yeah, it really doesn't explain much in regard to Dean. If he really just got pulled out because of what Mary said ... well, that doesn't make much sense, I think. Many people say "I swear to God", don't they? And yet, God doesn't always interfere.
It makes me need to go back and watch all of Dean's interactions with YED... YED has met him already... Do we see that? He doesn't strike me as the type who wouldn't have alluded to that.
I'll have to rewatch for that.
I guess I'm Debbie downer... Sorry.
We can't always all like the same.
|
|