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Post by mick on May 18, 2009 23:19:21 GMT 1
X, I agree with what you said. I also think that Dean may have eventually called Sam, once he calmed down, but Bobby got him to do it earlier. Dean has always shown that he's not against apologizing--he did it in "Scarecrow." He's always wanted his family to be together. I think it may have to do with losing his mother at such a young age. He remembers it (at least according to a couple of episodes), so I can imagine as a 4-yr old, his biggest fear would be to lose what he has left. I'm not saying that Sam doesn't want his family together, but his memories are different, so his outlook is different. As he stated in season one ("Shadow," I think), they would still be a family, even if they weren't together. A healthier outlook, of course, but it shows how events in our lives can shape how we feel about things.
Ooh, Sil, good call about Bobby with the shotgun. I've always wanted to know what that was about. I've read a couple of fics where it's addressed, but they usually take place after Sam has left and John is being a jerk. Whatever it was, I do think that Sam wasn't there, because in the episode where it's mentioned in season 1, Dean mentions it and Sam doesn't seem to know what he is talking about.
I also agree with the self-aware stuff, and, again, I think it's because of how they were raised and the roles they had in the family. As John said, Dean took care of everybody else--he probably didn't have the time to sit and think about himself.
LOL their remark about Sera's script. Did they really say that?!
Yes, they did. I want to say it was at one of the recent cons (as in one of them that took place this season), but I'm not sure which one. I'm pretty sure I saw a vid of it up on YouTube.
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xwacky
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Post by xwacky on May 19, 2009 9:21:48 GMT 1
One thing I want to make it clear YOR, I never thought Sam as "selfish". Well actually two things: I vehemently disagree you calling yourself "selfish". You are one of the most generous person I've ever met!
Back to Sam, I see there's a shadow of self-center emerging at times. And I think he is that way because he is the baby of the family, and had Dean doted on him. So it's only natural. But I don't think he's that way all the time. For the most part, I see Sam as very "self-aware". That's why he would have dreams of what he want to be growing up, and not afraid to pursue it. In that sense, he is very much like Lee. The difference is Lee is an older child, and he was also thrown into the caretaker position at an early age. So even though Lee is also the thinky type of person, I see him as less self-centered.
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Post by Silwyna on May 19, 2009 9:55:57 GMT 1
I think one of the reasons I loved Dean making the statement though, is the little reminder that he TOO, is still John's son... We've spent time this season commenting on how alike Sam is, but when it comes down to it, the Winchesters are ALL cut from the same cloth! John shows himself in Dean too. And yes, it did again give him the chance to see he can change, unlike his father.This also showed when Dean made the deal. Like father, like son ... I vehemently disagree you calling yourself "selfish". You are one of the most generous person I've ever met!I couldn't agree more with this
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yor
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Post by yor on May 19, 2009 11:56:15 GMT 1
I think it's important to have moments of selfishness. I'm content to know I'm selfish. I don't deny it. One can be both.
Show me a person who is never selfish, and I'll show you someone who (perhaps deep down) has some frustrations... We all need to take some time for ourselves. For Dean, it was reflected in his choice of relaxation? (Sex) Foods? The ways he sought to comfort himself? This was his attempt?
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Post by Silwyna on May 19, 2009 12:22:08 GMT 1
I never thought of that as selfish, but yeah, it sounds reasonable.
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mick
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Post by mick on May 19, 2009 12:37:23 GMT 1
We all need to take some time for ourselves. For Dean, it was reflected in his choice of relaxation? (Sex) Foods? The ways he sought to comfort himself? This was his attempt? Before the deal, I would say yes to this. After the deal--I always felt these were his ways of avoiding having to think about the deal, to show Sam he was okay. I think he was hiding his real fear behind these acts, trying to show everybody (even himself) that everything was okay, that he wasn't scared, etc. Now, I think it's his way of trying to get back to normal (although we haven't seen whole lot of these activities, what with the world ending and all ). I think with Anna, it was a way to drown out what was going on in his head. Maybe it's a form of selfishness? But I think now more is wrapped up in it than ever before. Really thinking about it, I can't say that Sam is all that selfish either (although both boys can be at times, which is only human). I think X is right in that he is the way he is because of his place in the family. He was always protected, was always first with Dean, which I think may be why, as mentioned somewhere upthread (or on a previous page), when the deal was made, his concern was how it would affect him. Actually, I've always thought Sam wasn't selfish as mush as prideful (is that a word?). Man, could you imagine them at a psychiatrist's office? They'd keep someone in business for a lifetime!
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yor
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Post by yor on May 20, 2009 0:01:53 GMT 1
I would agree that birth order has a LOT to do with it. I know... And yet I think my sister would say I am more selfish than she is, but I think she is WAY more self-absorbed than I am? I suppose it is all in perception.
The boys are seeing therapists... US!
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Post by mick on May 20, 2009 1:53:47 GMT 1
I would agree that birth order has a LOT to do with itI think it's birth order and how it's handled in the family. John relied on Dean because he was the oldest. Now, I will admit at times to telling my oldest, if they're outside or something, to keep an eye on his little sister, but I don't expect him or ask him to take care of her while I go out hunting monsters or something!
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yor
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Post by yor on May 20, 2009 3:50:08 GMT 1
HA! It's the same concept though. Just not carried to the same degree. My sister HATED having to "take care" of us.
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Post by Silwyna on May 20, 2009 17:15:04 GMT 1
My sister HATED having to "take care" of us.I always loved taking care of my little sister. (after I grew out of the "take her back!!!" phase anyway LOL) I never thought of it as something I have to do, as in I was told to do it. It just kinda came natural, I think. The boys are seeing therapists... US! If only they would listen to us!
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Post by mick on May 20, 2009 20:36:54 GMT 1
See, I don't really remember "taking care" of my sisters. I mean, when my parents went out, I was in charge so to say, but not in the sense that I told them what to do, just with things like answering the phone, making sure not to answer the door if someone came to it, that kind of thing. I will say that I had stricter rules than they did, but by the time they got to that age and the rules were less strict, I was older and it didn't bother me in the sense that I was angry about, just in the sense that I'd give my parents a jokingly hard time about it. I guess being the oldest, I "broke" my parents in.
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yor
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Post by yor on May 20, 2009 23:08:16 GMT 1
My sister has issues.
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mick
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Post by mick on May 20, 2009 23:24:15 GMT 1
Yor, you know what's funny? I've only heard you talk once (that one time when you called), and I don't remember what you sounded like, but with this last post, I swear I could hear you say it!
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yor
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Post by yor on May 21, 2009 3:18:47 GMT 1
lol Well, in honesty... don't we all have issues.
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