mick
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Post by mick on Apr 27, 2009 21:00:38 GMT 1
Do you think Possibly one of the reasons Sam continues to be so willing to give in to the "dark side" is because of Dean's promise to kill him if he goes to far?
I don't know about this. Right now, he doesn't believe Dean is strong enough to deal with things, so I can't see him thinking Dean would be strong enough to kill him. I can, however, see him thinking the angels would kill him, but I honestly don't think he's even thinking that way. I do think he's not afraid of dying, but I don't think he's counting on Dean to kill him if he goes too far because, in my opinion, once he started drinking Ruby's blood, he stepped over the line from being human to becoming something else, someone with supernatural powers.
Personally, I think Sam is so willing to give in to the darkside because he thinks he's doing the right thing, that he's the only one who can get the job done, and giving in is the way to do it. He is so blinded by vengeance and his own abilities that he can't see what he's actually doing. Like Chuck said, Sam can't really think that drinking demon blood is a good thing, right? I just think he doesn't think about it. Back in season 2, he was so afraid of becoming a monster, of becoming the thing that they hunted, of not being human anymore. He doesn't seem to have these fears anymore.
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yor
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Post by yor on Apr 28, 2009 0:15:18 GMT 1
Note Mick, we're talking subconscious levels. Deep down, Dean has never failed him. That's why he was so crushed when Dean died. His conscious mind believes Dean is weakened. Heck, Dean is. We all see it. Who wouldn't be with what he's been through. That of course doesn't mean he won't come through in the end as we know he (via the writers) will.
This concept for me, is buried deep down. He's free to follow this path... I even went so far as to think he started it to GO TO HELL. He knew it was wrong following Dean's death because he WANTS to go to hell. (Still does.) He might feel he has to. John went. Dean went. He might have wanted to go to join Dean... and now feels deep down, it's his job to also end up in hell so he'll go Dark to get there. And if he can do some good in the process, so be it.
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mick
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Post by mick on Apr 28, 2009 2:21:30 GMT 1
believes Dean is weakened. Heck, Dean is. We all see it
Actually, after the last couple of episodes, I think he is getting his strength back. I think it's too quick, mind you, but it's back. He was right in "The Monster at..." to not go after Lilith--they weren't ready, and he had no problem facing an archangel (for Sam, thus showing what you said), nor did he have any problem telling Cas to shove it. In this last one, he not only solved the case, but saved Sam and killed the monsters. So, for me, he is no longer as weak as he was (and, really, he wasn't as weak as you would think he should be--he still hunted, still went after the "bad guys;" he wasn't cowering in a corner). I think part of Sam and his whole weak thing is one of the things he tells himself as to why it's okay for him to build his powers--Dean's too weak but I'm not. Just my opinion, though. You are right that Dean has never failed Sam, while Sam feels like he failed Dean.
I don't know about Sam feeling like he has to go to hell because his father and brother did. I just don't see that. Now, I could buy him wanting to go to exact more vengeance, especially on any demons that tortured his brother and father. I think he wanted to take Dean's place because Dean was there because of the deal to bring Sam back--I could buy that reason, but not one where he feels like he should be there because he's the only one who hasn't been there. The problem with all of this is the writers haven't really told us what is going on in Sam's head for us to know, so it's all just speculation. And the one episode where we should have seen it ended up being about how wonderful Ruby (ugh!) is, instead of it being about Sam (yes, I'm still bitter about that! ;D).
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yor
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Post by yor on Apr 28, 2009 12:13:45 GMT 1
I agree we're starting to see a return to a Dean we once knew. The episodes have all been building Dean back up. I also know that you're very tainted against Sam. The hell idea was merely a suggestion that could have been had writers developed other directions. It was merely something in my mind that could have been based on motivations driving Sam. Bitter is your adjective huh? *wink*
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mick
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Post by mick on Apr 28, 2009 12:34:25 GMT 1
I also know that you're very tainted against Sam. The hell idea was merely a suggestion that could have been had writers developed other directions. It was merely something in my mind that could have been based on motivations driving Sam.
Um, no, I don't think I'm "tainted." I was just trying to give a different side to his motivations. You might be right in what's going on with him subconsciously, but we just don't know for sure as the writers haven't told us.
Personally, I don't like what they've done with the character. I think there's lots of ways they could have made him a stronger character without going the route they've going. They're just loading up more angst on both characters (in my opinion).
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Post by October Bantum on May 5, 2009 21:06:24 GMT 1
I really liked this episode especially how everything turned out (with the brother not being their brother but being their brother.....if ya get me lol)
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