Post by mick on Feb 9, 2009 2:28:23 GMT 1
And my point is from the get go this was set up to be Sam could only go bad.
And, it's waht Jared wants! With all the "Star Wars" references that I've read over the course of the series, its not surprising. I've always felt that Sam and Dean were more Anakin and Obi-Wan than Luke and Han.
Of COURSE John is going to say Sam might go evil. He never really knew his son and wasn't around long enough to know how to handle it.
I'm basing this on the scene between YED and John in IMTOD. YED says to John something to the affect of him knowing about the psychic kids, and John replies that he had known for a while. I don't think this has anything to do with knowing or not knowing his own son; I think it has to do that he knows what the YED did and what may happen, with all the special kids.
Imagine the story line if John and Dean had said, screw the YED, we're going to help Sam turn his own powers against him
At John's time of death, I don't know for sure that he knew what was going on with the powers. As for Dean, he didn't find out that the powers came from YED until "In the Beginning," all he knew was that Sam had powers and the YED wanted him to lead his demon army. And, if John and Dean had taken this route, wouldn't they then only be using Sam as mean to an end? And would Sam have gone along, anyways? How many times have we heard him chastise Dean for being "daddy's little soldier?" I can't see him willingly agreeing to it, nor can I see Dean risking Sam in that way. Plus, maybe that's why John was so intent on killing YED (even beggin Sam to kill him)--so the YED's plans couldn't come to fruition.
Sure, Sam's going behind Dean's back, but that's because Dean has made it clear that he's not going to support Sam in any way.
Well, to be fair to Dean, Sam was going behind his back as soon as Dean was back from hell. He was hiding it then, even went so far as to lie to Dean's face with the whole, "It was pratically your dying wish" scene. Dean didn't know anything about the powers that Sam had been working on, and he didn't find out until 3 episodes into season 4, so that whole time Sam was hiding it. Dean had to find out the hard way, and he reacted honestly, I think. Dean found out that the person he loves and trusts the most had been lying to him and sneaking behind his back, and he also had to find out by sneaking out and catching Sam in the act--I think he reacted the way anyone would. If the powers were so great, why did Sam hide them? He may have suspected that Dean wouldn't like it and wouldn't support it, but he never gave Dean the chance. He didn't trust Dean enough to be honest with him at the beginning.
Besides, Dean said it best himself during their fight--it isn't about the powers, it's about the fact that Sam isn't Sam anymore. Sam, as far as Dean is concerned, has started changing because of the powers. It's only natural he wouldn't support that. The powers are a drug--just as drugs, when taken long enough--start affecting a person's personality, so have these powers. It was even alluded to in the magician episode, in the end scene (I can't remember the exact words, but it was something about how the magic became addicitive--all I remember is that it was very anvilly!).
Do you guys remember reading an interview with Jared, way back at the beginning of this season, where he said that Sam was going to resent Dean being back? It never made sense to me, because I never really saw it, that is until this episode. I remember wondering why Sam would resent the fact that his brother was alive and back from hell. Well, I think it's because of the things he said to Dean--he feels like Dean is holding him back.
I would love so much to see Dean just walk out with a whole, "I'm holding you back, so, see ya!" I think, one, it would be good for Dean to see that he can leave, that he can be on his own. Two, I think it would be good for Sam to see that Dean can leave him. I remember when Dean threatened in "Metamorphisis," for a second Sam had this look of just panic (well played by Jared!). John had no problem leaving Dean, and neither has Sam. I think both of them always expected that Dean would be there for them. Dean needs to think about himself for once, and Sam needs to see what it's like to be truly on this own (yes, Dean died, but I don't count that because, now, if Dean left, Sam would know he was still out there--don't know if that makes sense or sounds like how I want it to) and on his own without Ruby!
You know what really ticks me off? The fact that we don't get a new episode until March 5th!!! And I'll be doubly irritated if, in the next episode, they act like nothing at all has happened. Nothing has to be said, but I would hope to see some tension, maybe some looks, to show that everything is not okay, because we all know it's not.
And, it's waht Jared wants! With all the "Star Wars" references that I've read over the course of the series, its not surprising. I've always felt that Sam and Dean were more Anakin and Obi-Wan than Luke and Han.
Of COURSE John is going to say Sam might go evil. He never really knew his son and wasn't around long enough to know how to handle it.
I'm basing this on the scene between YED and John in IMTOD. YED says to John something to the affect of him knowing about the psychic kids, and John replies that he had known for a while. I don't think this has anything to do with knowing or not knowing his own son; I think it has to do that he knows what the YED did and what may happen, with all the special kids.
Imagine the story line if John and Dean had said, screw the YED, we're going to help Sam turn his own powers against him
At John's time of death, I don't know for sure that he knew what was going on with the powers. As for Dean, he didn't find out that the powers came from YED until "In the Beginning," all he knew was that Sam had powers and the YED wanted him to lead his demon army. And, if John and Dean had taken this route, wouldn't they then only be using Sam as mean to an end? And would Sam have gone along, anyways? How many times have we heard him chastise Dean for being "daddy's little soldier?" I can't see him willingly agreeing to it, nor can I see Dean risking Sam in that way. Plus, maybe that's why John was so intent on killing YED (even beggin Sam to kill him)--so the YED's plans couldn't come to fruition.
Sure, Sam's going behind Dean's back, but that's because Dean has made it clear that he's not going to support Sam in any way.
Well, to be fair to Dean, Sam was going behind his back as soon as Dean was back from hell. He was hiding it then, even went so far as to lie to Dean's face with the whole, "It was pratically your dying wish" scene. Dean didn't know anything about the powers that Sam had been working on, and he didn't find out until 3 episodes into season 4, so that whole time Sam was hiding it. Dean had to find out the hard way, and he reacted honestly, I think. Dean found out that the person he loves and trusts the most had been lying to him and sneaking behind his back, and he also had to find out by sneaking out and catching Sam in the act--I think he reacted the way anyone would. If the powers were so great, why did Sam hide them? He may have suspected that Dean wouldn't like it and wouldn't support it, but he never gave Dean the chance. He didn't trust Dean enough to be honest with him at the beginning.
Besides, Dean said it best himself during their fight--it isn't about the powers, it's about the fact that Sam isn't Sam anymore. Sam, as far as Dean is concerned, has started changing because of the powers. It's only natural he wouldn't support that. The powers are a drug--just as drugs, when taken long enough--start affecting a person's personality, so have these powers. It was even alluded to in the magician episode, in the end scene (I can't remember the exact words, but it was something about how the magic became addicitive--all I remember is that it was very anvilly!).
Do you guys remember reading an interview with Jared, way back at the beginning of this season, where he said that Sam was going to resent Dean being back? It never made sense to me, because I never really saw it, that is until this episode. I remember wondering why Sam would resent the fact that his brother was alive and back from hell. Well, I think it's because of the things he said to Dean--he feels like Dean is holding him back.
I would love so much to see Dean just walk out with a whole, "I'm holding you back, so, see ya!" I think, one, it would be good for Dean to see that he can leave, that he can be on his own. Two, I think it would be good for Sam to see that Dean can leave him. I remember when Dean threatened in "Metamorphisis," for a second Sam had this look of just panic (well played by Jared!). John had no problem leaving Dean, and neither has Sam. I think both of them always expected that Dean would be there for them. Dean needs to think about himself for once, and Sam needs to see what it's like to be truly on this own (yes, Dean died, but I don't count that because, now, if Dean left, Sam would know he was still out there--don't know if that makes sense or sounds like how I want it to) and on his own without Ruby!
You know what really ticks me off? The fact that we don't get a new episode until March 5th!!! And I'll be doubly irritated if, in the next episode, they act like nothing at all has happened. Nothing has to be said, but I would hope to see some tension, maybe some looks, to show that everything is not okay, because we all know it's not.