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Post by Silwyna on Feb 3, 2008 19:36:47 GMT 1
Good point.
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Post by mick on Feb 3, 2008 22:53:24 GMT 1
What bothered me a bit about this scene was, when Ruby saved Dean they sat down together and talked a bit. All the while Sam is on his way to the witches with the colt, planning to kill them to save Dean. Dean knows that ... and yet he takes the time to have a little chit-chat with Ruby?
Ooh--good catch. I hadn't thought about that, but you're right.
I agree with YOR about Dean turning evil; I don't think it will happen, at least not because of the deal. Ruby said that it takes hundred of years and Dean being Dean, with him it would probably take a while longer. And if Ruby managed to stay human a bit, I'm sure Dean could too.
True--but I would like to see the demons in hell trying to turn him evil (what can I say--I would like to see Dean actually go to hell. I mean, he did make the deal and all, and between him fighting there and Sam fighting here, he gets out, as long as Sam doesn't become evil to facilitate it).
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Post by Silwyna on Feb 4, 2008 14:11:09 GMT 1
But if Dean has to fight in hell and Sam has to fight on earth, they can't fight together. I need my boys side by side.
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Post by mick on Feb 4, 2008 17:24:22 GMT 1
Yep, I want them side by side as well, that's why I would like to see Dean go to hell, but only be there for an episode or two, then, with Sam's help, he gets out (hey, a girl can dream), and they continue the fight. I'd also like to see more urban legends.
I just don't want anymore deals!
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Post by Silwyna on Feb 4, 2008 21:31:44 GMT 1
I don't think there will be another deal. That really would be a too cheap solution. And Kripke has never given us cheap before
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Post by yor on Feb 5, 2008 0:33:31 GMT 1
Here's my latest thought... Dean goes to hell, but JOHN gets to him and shows him how to get out!!!
Splitting the boys up does give us more angst... and reminds us of how much we like them together...
Here's a thought for you... It didn't bother me that Dean paused for the chat with Ruby when she saves him. First of all, he doesn't know that he'd going to see her again and she did save him. Secondly, he wants to know what indeed it was. Thirdly, it wasn't all that long... and finally, perhaps he just has confidence that Sam's ok. He did have the colt after all.
Just my little devil's advocate...
What bugs me more is WHERE WAS THE HEX BAG?
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Post by mick on Feb 5, 2008 1:40:38 GMT 1
Here's my latest thought... Dean goes to hell, but JOHN gets to him and shows him how to get out!!!
Did you read the fic I rec'd over in the fic thread? It's not a "Dean in hell" fic--it takes place right after this episode, but Dean does "call" on someone to help...
Splitting the boys up does give us more angst... and reminds us of how much we like them together...
So true.
What bugs me more is WHERE WAS THE HEX BAG?
I was under the impression that there wasn't a hex bag because it was the demon witch, Tammi, causing Dean to get sick, not the other witches, and sonce she's a demon, and maybe the hex bags were just a distraction for the guys or something.
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Post by yor on Feb 5, 2008 2:00:10 GMT 1
So she was killing these women to attract Sam and Dean? I'm confused... I guess I thought she needed the hex bags...
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Post by Silwyna on Feb 5, 2008 13:10:33 GMT 1
But she has only started killing after Sam and Dean came to town. The teeth scene and the thing with the maggots was done by another witch.
Hmm, I had totally forgotten about the hex bag. Maybe it has lost its power over Dean after Ruby saved him? It might still be somewhere in the room.
Here's a thought for you... It didn't bother me that Dean paused for the chat with Ruby when she saves him. First of all, he doesn't know that he'd going to see her again and she did save him. Secondly, he wants to know what indeed it was. Thirdly, it wasn't all that long... and finally, perhaps he just has confidence that Sam's ok. He did have the colt after all.
I didn't mean it like that Dean was afraid something could happen to Sam. But Dean has been so afraid of Sam changing, of being darker than before. And now he's going to three humans with the colt ... and I think it was pretty obvious that he was very determined to kill them if it were the only way. So I think it would have made more sense for Dean to try and stop him from killing them.
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Post by yor on Feb 6, 2008 0:47:59 GMT 1
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Post by Silwyna on Feb 6, 2008 10:20:20 GMT 1
Thanks for the link, this was really interesting to read.
The argument continued through their return to their current seedy motel, with Dean disturbed both because Sam was taking advice from a demon and because he seemed no longer conflicted about killing people. Sam admitted that he wasn’t behaving like himself any more, but said that he had no choice but to change, because the only way for him to survive, keep going, and fight the war alone after Dean died would be if he became more like Dean.
This is why I think Dean would have run after Sam the moment he felt up to it and not stay and sitting calmly on the bed, talking with Ruby. It just feels wrong in my eyes.
I like that the reviewer calls Sam Dean's conscience. He has influenced Dean's decisions a lot in the past. So when he becomes Dean and loses himself, he might really turn into the very being he tried so hard not to become. His own hell ... very well said.
It’s clearly Hell’s own problem if those confined there manage to escape.
LOL That's true, I guess. Though I think it would be a bit too easy if they would just revive Dean after he died. Who knows how he would come back? Maybe not 100 % either? It would be like Sam all over again.
Jensen Ackles did his usual lovely job with Dean. The closing scene with Ruby was so very understated; Dean wouldn’t show the depth of his feelings to Ruby, and watching his eyes shutter and his face close every time he realized that she had turned to look at him was magic. He can do more with a flicker of eyes than others can with histrionics. Dean’s fear, his realization that one slim hope had been closed off, and his attempt to stay strong despite it all embodied precisely what made me love this character in the first place.
Perfectly said!!!! You just gotta love Dean/Jensen.
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Post by yor on Feb 6, 2008 13:07:43 GMT 1
Sam admitted that he wasn’t behaving like himself any more, but said that he had no choice but to change, because the only way for him to survive, keep going, and fight the war alone after Dean died would be if he became more like Dean. At the same time, it is much like the scene with the Impala. Dean doesn't like giving up her care, but he knows he has to. He's almost like a parent, realizing he can't do for his child anymore and has to let him be. AND YET, I can understand your disappointment. Maybe if we had seen more anxiety on his part... he did seem too calm. And then the next thing we see is him bursting in as if he ran there... One of the few times I think the scene was set wrong. HOW DID he get there? He must have Stolen a car? I also LOVED the part about Sam's role in Dean's life and if Same is indeed changing to be more like Dean, he must either still remain his own conscience or find another or risk the evil?
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Post by Silwyna on Feb 6, 2008 14:03:50 GMT 1
Maybe if we had seen more anxiety on his part... he did seem too calm.
That's excactly what I meant.
HOW DID he get there? He must have Stolen a car?
I have been wondering about that too. But we have already seen Sam stealing a car, so I guess Dean would haven even less scruples about that.
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