yor
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Post by yor on May 31, 2009 19:36:18 GMT 1
www.cinemaspy.com/article.php?id=2472An interesting read... I liked being reminded that in all this, Mary had a hand in setting all this in motion... I tended to forget that. I need to go back and rewatch "In the Beginning." As much as I said I wouldn't... I did glance at the replies. I did find some of the points they made interesting... Is Supernatural against Free Will?
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Post by Silwyna on May 31, 2009 22:32:58 GMT 1
Interesting article! Thanks for the link. I don't think SPN is against free will, on the contrary! It was Sam's free will to drink the demon blood, to use his powers, to go after Lilith. Yes, he was manipulated into it, but it was still his free will. No one forced him to do it. It was Dean's free will to sell his soul. Yes, he was desperate at the moment, but again, no one forced him. The demon didn't come to him, Dean went to the crossroads all by himself. Castiel is deciding to help Dean in the end - free will. No one forced him to go up against the other angels. It was John's free will to start hunting. He could have just accepted the fault wiring theory, or even if he hadn't, he could have still given his boys a normal life. No one forced him to do what he did. In a way, all these decicisons lead to the fulfillment of their destiny, so I guess you could say that doesn't really make it free will, but - to me - they always had a choice to turn the other way. And the story isn't over yet. Sam hasn't turned fully dark side (as he was supposed to) and I don't think he'll ever will. Dean might be the one to kill Lucifer, but I doubt he'll do it alone - Sam will be there to help him do it. And Bobby of course I can't really find the right words for this, but to me this show is full of free will.
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yor
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Post by yor on Jun 1, 2009 0:09:25 GMT 1
I misstated the observation. The observation is about WHO gets free-will and who doesn't.
Her observation to me, was what was interesting... (and she admitted it was very personally slanted)...
Sam is cast as the "abnormal" / tainted brother. Most times he used his free will decisions, it goes badly for him. In her opinion, when he tries to use what makes him special, it is wrong. (Her arguments)
She is saying that sends a powerfully bad message of "tow the line and be normal or bad things happen.
I can see how if she is, for example, an awkward teenager, trying to find her place in the world, that can be a sensitive message that is indeed sent by the show. (I see these teens daily.) She would recognize this in the show more clearly than I, a reasonably well adjusted adult woman. Just like I have sibling issues and fight for Sam in ways that others here don't.
We've often said, we respond emotionally to the characters based on our own experience. I thought this person's perspective was quite poignant.
I thought Denisse message had some good points and well thought out arguments... It made me stop and think. I appreciate that.
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Post by Silwyna on Jun 1, 2009 10:05:57 GMT 1
Ah, okay, now I know what you mean. I never thought of Sam as abnormal, at least not compared to Dean. They're both so far away from what's considered normal. I guess as a teenager it might seem that way (I'm glad I don't need to look into teenagers' heads daily ); you automatically feel different from everyone around you and being "forced" into normal is the last you want. Honestly, to compare Sam's powers and being normal or not to teenager problems never even crossed my mind LOL
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yor
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Post by yor on Jun 1, 2009 11:57:42 GMT 1
At first my reaction was, "neither Sam nor Dean are normal," but as I read, I considered her reasoning and as I said, I really thought she had some interesting things to say.
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Post by Silwyna on Jun 1, 2009 12:40:50 GMT 1
Oh, I can see where she's coming from and it's definitely something to think about.
I just don't see it in regard to SPN.
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yor
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Post by yor on Jun 1, 2009 23:55:46 GMT 1
lol... I very clearly see it. I just don't think it was their purpose or an intent. It was perhaps an accident and she simply feels it because it's too close to her life.
We can read so much in to things... Such is the lesson of life.
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mick
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Post by mick on Jun 3, 2009 2:38:19 GMT 1
tow the line and be normal or bad things happen.Sometimes I feel like this describes my life! ;D Seriously, if I even thought about doing something wrong, I'd get caught. Mary had a hand in setting all this in motionWell, you know, it's always the mother's fault! ;D The free-will thing is interesting, even outside the show itself. Do we have choices, or all we all just following some predetermined destiny...have our lives already been planned out, or can we change them?
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yor
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Post by yor on Jun 3, 2009 3:59:47 GMT 1
OH I totally believe we have free-will. God just knows how we most likely will choose... He still gives us options...
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Post by Silwyna on Jun 4, 2009 20:39:07 GMT 1
Do you know the TV show "Being human"? I've watched the first two episodes so far and it keeps reminding me of our talk here.
The show is about a ghost, a vampire and a werewolf living together. Sounds like a joke, I know, but it's brilliant! It has EVERYTHING in it that we talked about. Free will, making your own choices, not being normal, trying to fit in, accepting what you are. Plus, there's the dark side threatening to take over the characters (or two of them anyway).
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it's supposed to air on BBC America soon (or maybe it has already started, I don't remember the exact date).
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